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	<title>Comments for Rational Survivability</title>
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	<link>http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog</link>
	<description>Hoff&#039;s Ramblings about Information Survivability, Information Centricity, Risk Management and Disruptive Innovation.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 18:42:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Overlays: Wasting Away Again In Abstractionville&#8230; by Phil Cox</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/2012/05/overlays/#comment-4690</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Cox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 18:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/?p=3528#comment-4690</guid>
		<description>Hoff,

Some very good points and stuff to think about. To me much of what you said is summed up in your two line:
   &quot;But to an Enterprise without a real plan as to what “Cloud” really means to their business,&quot;
and
  &quot;If you simply expect to layer them on your legacy infrastructure, operational models and people and call it “Cloud,”

Whether a company takes the path of a 1, 1.25, 1.5, 2, etc. is more about their understanding of needs. Most of which, as you point out above, don&#039;t have a clear &quot;business objective&quot; in mind, except to &quot;use that cloud thing&quot;. It will be interesting to see how the whole &quot;network overlay&quot; thing works it self out in the end. It seem that many (most? all?) providers are pushing that model as well to get the adoption. As yoda said &quot;The dark side clouds everything. Impossible to see the future is.&quot;

The one thing that does bother me a bit is that with the &quot;this on that&quot; reliance that is being built, the ability to secure it becomes much more of a task of peeling back the layers and making intelligent decisions on each of them. In reality, as complexity increases, the number of folks who can see clearly through the tangled web shrinks dramatically. The issues of trust and transparency becomes even more important IMHO.

Thanks for the post, got me thinking about soem things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hoff,</p>
<p>Some very good points and stuff to think about. To me much of what you said is summed up in your two line:<br />
   &#8220;But to an Enterprise without a real plan as to what “Cloud” really means to their business,&#8221;<br />
and<br />
  &#8220;If you simply expect to layer them on your legacy infrastructure, operational models and people and call it “Cloud,”</p>
<p>Whether a company takes the path of a 1, 1.25, 1.5, 2, etc. is more about their understanding of needs. Most of which, as you point out above, don&#8217;t have a clear &#8220;business objective&#8221; in mind, except to &#8220;use that cloud thing&#8221;. It will be interesting to see how the whole &#8220;network overlay&#8221; thing works it self out in the end. It seem that many (most? all?) providers are pushing that model as well to get the adoption. As yoda said &#8220;The dark side clouds everything. Impossible to see the future is.&#8221;</p>
<p>The one thing that does bother me a bit is that with the &#8220;this on that&#8221; reliance that is being built, the ability to secure it becomes much more of a task of peeling back the layers and making intelligent decisions on each of them. In reality, as complexity increases, the number of folks who can see clearly through the tangled web shrinks dramatically. The issues of trust and transparency becomes even more important IMHO.</p>
<p>Thanks for the post, got me thinking about soem things.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Overlays: Wasting Away Again In Abstractionville&#8230; by Chris Marino</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/2012/05/overlays/#comment-4687</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Marino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 02:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/?p=3528#comment-4687</guid>
		<description>Chris, I&#039;m not sure I buy in to your premise. In my opinion, what you present as an either/or path can both be simultaneously true. And any strategy to pursue one over another is really just a matter of degree. 

You&#039;re clearly not arguing that these overlays won&#039;t be part of Option #1 (&#039;they’re simply mom and apple pie and are, for the most part, invisible&#039;). Yet you do argue that these same overlays are: &#039;They’re a crutch and another band-aid to solve legacy problems&#039;?

It can&#039;t be both, can it?

Lets suppose you go down path #1. What&#039;s the first thing you&#039;re going to do with your new fandango S/P/Iaas Pub/Pri/Hybrid cloudamatron? Probably a simple, low risk, low impact application, right?  Well, most of time (unless it&#039;s *also* a new, stand-alone siloed app), it&#039;s going to need to somehow interact with some kind of legacy system.  How will it do that?  Probably with a gateway of some kind, along with a VPN, of some kind, using a tunneling mechanism of some kind. 

Doesn&#039;t this sounds a little like path #2?

I think the technical distinction between the paths you present are minimal, at best. However, I&#039;ll grant you that framing the solutions as either #1 or #2 might be useful, helpful and maybe even necessary when trying to get an organization to buy in to the plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, I&#8217;m not sure I buy in to your premise. In my opinion, what you present as an either/or path can both be simultaneously true. And any strategy to pursue one over another is really just a matter of degree. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re clearly not arguing that these overlays won&#8217;t be part of Option #1 (&#8216;they’re simply mom and apple pie and are, for the most part, invisible&#8217;). Yet you do argue that these same overlays are: &#8216;They’re a crutch and another band-aid to solve legacy problems&#8217;?</p>
<p>It can&#8217;t be both, can it?</p>
<p>Lets suppose you go down path #1. What&#8217;s the first thing you&#8217;re going to do with your new fandango S/P/Iaas Pub/Pri/Hybrid cloudamatron? Probably a simple, low risk, low impact application, right?  Well, most of time (unless it&#8217;s *also* a new, stand-alone siloed app), it&#8217;s going to need to somehow interact with some kind of legacy system.  How will it do that?  Probably with a gateway of some kind, along with a VPN, of some kind, using a tunneling mechanism of some kind. </p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t this sounds a little like path #2?</p>
<p>I think the technical distinction between the paths you present are minimal, at best. However, I&#8217;ll grant you that framing the solutions as either #1 or #2 might be useful, helpful and maybe even necessary when trying to get an organization to buy in to the plan.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tin Foil Hats: On BBQ Brisket &amp; Security Purists&#8230; by Shukong</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/2012/04/tin-foil-hats-on-bbq-brisket-security-purists/#comment-4657</link>
		<dc:creator>Shukong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2012 04:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/?p=3510#comment-4657</guid>
		<description>Who knew it would take a non-meat deity (not diety) pastafarian (with a plastic collander) to remind me of the tin foil hat article on http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14135523 .  Niko&#039;s strainer, collander, sieve, whatever you call it, made pastafarian history.

For those who are not already aware of pastafaricness, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster 

Where is this going?  Tin Foil Hats, of course:  the study http://berkeley.intel-research.net/arahimi/helmet/  that showed the foil hats often used for protection against remote mind control by aliens and Big Brother, often not only failed to protect the brains of the potential victims, but actually amplified the radio signals inside the foil at frequencies that are specifically reserved for government use.   Is it possible that it was a plot all along, to peer into the brains of the most paranoid?   Yikes !

Smoke it, Beaker!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who knew it would take a non-meat deity (not diety) pastafarian (with a plastic collander) to remind me of the tin foil hat article on <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14135523" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14135523</a> .  Niko&#8217;s strainer, collander, sieve, whatever you call it, made pastafarian history.</p>
<p>For those who are not already aware of pastafaricness, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster</a> </p>
<p>Where is this going?  Tin Foil Hats, of course:  the study <a href="http://berkeley.intel-research.net/arahimi/helmet/" rel="nofollow">http://berkeley.intel-research.net/arahimi/helmet/</a>  that showed the foil hats often used for protection against remote mind control by aliens and Big Brother, often not only failed to protect the brains of the potential victims, but actually amplified the radio signals inside the foil at frequencies that are specifically reserved for government use.   Is it possible that it was a plot all along, to peer into the brains of the most paranoid?   Yikes !</p>
<p>Smoke it, Beaker!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tin Foil Hats: On BBQ Brisket &amp; Security Purists&#8230; by TexTech Chef (not the college)</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/2012/04/tin-foil-hats-on-bbq-brisket-security-purists/#comment-4649</link>
		<dc:creator>TexTech Chef (not the college)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2012 02:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/?p=3510#comment-4649</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Beaker.  Have to go back and pull down the episode.  I enjoy all their antics - Anthony Bourdain, Steven Raichlen (1st book I bought on cooking with fire) and Alton Brown (his Baby Back Rib recipe - FOR THE OVEN NO LESS - works great in ol&#039; smoky ironsides).  As twice-transplanted to Lone Star Nation, and between our tours of duty, you should have seen our NJ condo neighbors puzzlement at the smoker running seven hours with brisket (of course, they were also vegans).  And first off, it&#039;s Bar-B-Q here in Texas (at least in Hill Country).  It&#039;s easy to avoid the stall and crutch.  Just pay attention to the fire and use a smoker with a separate fire box off to the side.  I&#039;ve also switched to nothing but pecan wood, which burns even and steady, unlike unpredictable live oak or mesquite, ya&#039; all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Beaker.  Have to go back and pull down the episode.  I enjoy all their antics &#8211; Anthony Bourdain, Steven Raichlen (1st book I bought on cooking with fire) and Alton Brown (his Baby Back Rib recipe &#8211; FOR THE OVEN NO LESS &#8211; works great in ol&#8217; smoky ironsides).  As twice-transplanted to Lone Star Nation, and between our tours of duty, you should have seen our NJ condo neighbors puzzlement at the smoker running seven hours with brisket (of course, they were also vegans).  And first off, it&#8217;s Bar-B-Q here in Texas (at least in Hill Country).  It&#8217;s easy to avoid the stall and crutch.  Just pay attention to the fire and use a smoker with a separate fire box off to the side.  I&#8217;ve also switched to nothing but pecan wood, which burns even and steady, unlike unpredictable live oak or mesquite, ya&#8217; all.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tin Foil Hats: On BBQ Brisket &amp; Security Purists&#8230; by beaker</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/2012/04/tin-foil-hats-on-bbq-brisket-security-purists/#comment-4646</link>
		<dc:creator>beaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2012 16:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/?p=3510#comment-4646</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-4644&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Amrit &lt;/a&gt; 

Good question as I really didn&#039;t spell that out. A &quot;Security Purist&quot; is someone who fails to take into consideration the design requirements, prevailing business environment, economic, organizational, cultural and architectural constraints, and instead simply blathers on about &quot;the only way&quot; without compromise.

...just like the BBQ discussion above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-4644" rel="nofollow">@Amrit </a> </p>
<p>Good question as I really didn&#8217;t spell that out. A &#8220;Security Purist&#8221; is someone who fails to take into consideration the design requirements, prevailing business environment, economic, organizational, cultural and architectural constraints, and instead simply blathers on about &#8220;the only way&#8221; without compromise.</p>
<p>&#8230;just like the BBQ discussion above.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tin Foil Hats: On BBQ Brisket &amp; Security Purists&#8230; by Ch@ZZbr0</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/2012/04/tin-foil-hats-on-bbq-brisket-security-purists/#comment-4645</link>
		<dc:creator>Ch@ZZbr0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2012 16:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/?p=3510#comment-4645</guid>
		<description>Nice to know that the &quot;big-endian, little-endian&quot; argument hasn&#039;t left us (hard-boiled eggs, not bit position.) But you knew that already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to know that the &#8220;big-endian, little-endian&#8221; argument hasn&#8217;t left us (hard-boiled eggs, not bit position.) But you knew that already.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tin Foil Hats: On BBQ Brisket &amp; Security Purists&#8230; by Amrit</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/2012/04/tin-foil-hats-on-bbq-brisket-security-purists/#comment-4644</link>
		<dc:creator>Amrit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2012 16:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/?p=3510#comment-4644</guid>
		<description>What is a &quot;security purist&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is a &#8220;security purist&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Incomplete Thought: Will the Public Cloud Create a Generation Of Network Stupid? by Ofer Elzam</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/2012/03/incomplete-thought-will-the-public-cloud-create-a-generation-of-network-stupid/#comment-4628</link>
		<dc:creator>Ofer Elzam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2012 19:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/?p=3500#comment-4628</guid>
		<description>An analogy I would suggest would be large passenger aircrafts and the operational transformation they went through from the introduction of the Boeing 707 in the 70s to todays huge flying machines.On top of material, mechanical and other aviation engineering advancements, modern computer systems, fly-by-wire, systems automation, auto-pilot, flight control evolution, etc. brought us from a piloting/operating cabin crew of 3 (pilot, co-pilot, and flight engineer) on a Boeing 707 carrying 140 passengers in 1975, to just two cabin crew members on a 747-400 carrying 660 passengers and on an Airbus A380-800 carrying 853 passengers.

Guess who was cut out...

Wikipedia describes it like this &quot;The advent of computer technology, reliable software, and a desire by commercial airlines to cut costs by reducing flight deck crew have eliminated the requirement for Flight Engineers on modern airliners. The same general logic has led to the removal of the Flight Engineer position in many modern military aircraft.&quot;

You get the point.

There will always be a need for engineers with deep knowledge of the underlying structures and the ability to design systems and take care of smooth operations. In fact it is likely there will be a growing need for such experts. At the same time there will be reduced &#039;cabin crews&#039; flying the plane or sailing the ships. And this is applicable to commercial as well as government and military operations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An analogy I would suggest would be large passenger aircrafts and the operational transformation they went through from the introduction of the Boeing 707 in the 70s to todays huge flying machines.On top of material, mechanical and other aviation engineering advancements, modern computer systems, fly-by-wire, systems automation, auto-pilot, flight control evolution, etc. brought us from a piloting/operating cabin crew of 3 (pilot, co-pilot, and flight engineer) on a Boeing 707 carrying 140 passengers in 1975, to just two cabin crew members on a 747-400 carrying 660 passengers and on an Airbus A380-800 carrying 853 passengers.</p>
<p>Guess who was cut out&#8230;</p>
<p>Wikipedia describes it like this &#8220;The advent of computer technology, reliable software, and a desire by commercial airlines to cut costs by reducing flight deck crew have eliminated the requirement for Flight Engineers on modern airliners. The same general logic has led to the removal of the Flight Engineer position in many modern military aircraft.&#8221;</p>
<p>You get the point.</p>
<p>There will always be a need for engineers with deep knowledge of the underlying structures and the ability to design systems and take care of smooth operations. In fact it is likely there will be a growing need for such experts. At the same time there will be reduced &#8216;cabin crews&#8217; flying the plane or sailing the ships. And this is applicable to commercial as well as government and military operations.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Unsafe At Any Speed: The Darkside Of Automation by Omar Sultan</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/2011/07/unsafe-at-any-speed-the-darkside-of-automation/#comment-4586</link>
		<dc:creator>Omar Sultan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 18:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/?p=3234#comment-4586</guid>
		<description>I think we will see a few more &quot;sorcerer&#039;s apprentice&quot; moments before folks start to catch on.  IT always operates in a systematic manner and if one part of the system gets too far ahead of the rest, bad things happen (think a three-legged race, but with more people tied together).

Right now, we see an emphasis on automating and speeding execution speed without commensurate updates to control and auditing systems--like cranking up the horsepower in a car without upgrading the steering and brakes--at some point you are going in a ditch.

Inserting people in-line into the process is not feasible--we are relatively slow, expensive, and often some of these systems are so complex they are beyond the scope of one person to understand (Airbus example, Flash Crash).  I think that Hoff has the right idea that we need to leverage automation and analytics on the control and audit side.

Machines policing machines -- how SkyNet-y. :)

Omar</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we will see a few more &#8220;sorcerer&#8217;s apprentice&#8221; moments before folks start to catch on.  IT always operates in a systematic manner and if one part of the system gets too far ahead of the rest, bad things happen (think a three-legged race, but with more people tied together).</p>
<p>Right now, we see an emphasis on automating and speeding execution speed without commensurate updates to control and auditing systems&#8211;like cranking up the horsepower in a car without upgrading the steering and brakes&#8211;at some point you are going in a ditch.</p>
<p>Inserting people in-line into the process is not feasible&#8211;we are relatively slow, expensive, and often some of these systems are so complex they are beyond the scope of one person to understand (Airbus example, Flash Crash).  I think that Hoff has the right idea that we need to leverage automation and analytics on the control and audit side.</p>
<p>Machines policing machines &#8212; how SkyNet-y. <img src='http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Omar</p>
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		<title>Comment on Incomplete Thought: Will the Public Cloud Create a Generation Of Network Stupid? by Brad Proctor</title>
		<link>http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/2012/03/incomplete-thought-will-the-public-cloud-create-a-generation-of-network-stupid/#comment-4567</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Proctor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rationalsurvivability.com/blog/?p=3500#comment-4567</guid>
		<description>Not too worried about it.  Hardly anyone programs in Assembly language anymore and yet we seem to be doing just fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not too worried about it.  Hardly anyone programs in Assembly language anymore and yet we seem to be doing just fine.</p>
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